Emily Merrell  

Welcome to the sixth degree Podcast, the podcast where we grill our guests about the things that make them tick and find out how human connection plays a role in their life. I’m your host, Emily Merrell.

Emily Merrell   

Hello, and welcome back to the sixth degree with Emily Merrell, the podcast where we grill our guests about the things that make them tick, and find out how human connection plays a role in their life. I’m your host, Emily, and today I am so excited to have my friend Jessy Dover, the co founder and creative director of Dagne Dover as our guest. Jessie, welcome to the show. 

Jessy Dover  

Thank you. I’m so very excited to chat with you today. It’s been a long time.

Emily Merrell   

I know. I feel like I selfishly put these podcasts together just so I can catch up with my friends that I haven’t talked to, in a very long time have very busy schedules.

Jessy Dover  

I love it. I love it. It’s a great idea. I have yet to solve that problem.

Emily Merrell 

Yeah, you just need to create a podcast to talk to your friends and have people listen to him. So Jessy, the theme of today’s show is scaling. And I think it’s such a treat that we have the chance to interview you because I remember when Dagne Dover was known more between our friends, specifically our friend Katie, thanks. Shout out to Katie for introducing Jessy and I, and I was that annoying person that would stop pretty much every single person I saw on the street, bring a Dagne Dover bag, and was like, Oh my God, how do they know Jessy? I text you. And it got to a certain point where I remember you texted me back and you’re like, it’s cool. You can stop texting me now. Like we’re kind of more well,

Jessy Dover   

Did I say that oh, my gosh

Emily Merrell   

In your way but you’re just like that everyone knows me.

Jessy Dover 

Thank you for doing that. It felt really good. 

Emily Merrell   

Well, I felt very proud of seeing those bags worn and if they didn’t know you, I definitely dropped that I I’ve known us from the beginning. So clearly, I’ve been a fan girl since the the origin of Dagne Dover and you know, been a dedicated and loyal Dagne Dover need over backpack were influencing hopefully many people to convert, I think it is the best backpack that is out on the market. I am saying that, again, the best backpack out on the market people but I’m so impressed by the growth truly of the brand and how it’s become a household name. So insane that like, take us way back. Take us back to the founding of Dagne Dover. Over Who were you to start a brand? And did you know that you wanted to create a brand that would become a household name?

Jessy Dover  

Great question. That was an interesting time in my life, I did always know that I wanted to start a brand. I’ve always been very into. I mean, good design, to me is everything. Like it influences the way that you live the quality of your life. And that has always been a big part of what my life purpose has felt like for me to be a designer. And I also knew that I wanted to be an entrepreneur. And so for me, like my plan was just okay. Like, I want to be a designer, I want to own my own brand. I’m going to go to Design School, and then I’m going to go get my MBA, and then I’m going to start my company. And it didn’t exactly happen that way. But that was my plan. I was okay, let’s see, I graduated from Parsons. So step one, go to design school, I went to Parsons School of Design, it was an awesome experience really tough. Not necessarily your typical college experience. I was living in Manhattan, and you know, like traveling uptown to Times Square to go to school, and then back down to the, to the Financial District of my apartment. And I learned a ton of things during that time, one of which was that I needed to work before I could really understand what running a business would be like and what type of business I wanted to start within the realm of fashion and design. First, I interned at as many places as I could, huge brands, small brands, like all kinds of places and I realized that I liked both for various different reasons. Obviously being at a small brand is really fun because you get to do everything you’re you’re designing as an intern, whereas a large brand you’re picking colors and hitting like mood boards on the wall, but you still pay to go to yoga with everybody and you know, have like a beautiful huge office where everyone like hangs out and you know, maybe your schedule isn’t quite as as vigorous as it would be a smaller kind of mom and pop type of brand. So I did that. And as my next steps. I basically I got a job. And I realized pretty quickly that like working as a designer at a huge brand was just not the type of situation I wanted to be in. I learned a ton about what I didn’t want and what I personally what type of influence I wanted to have on the designs I was creating and and so I started looking for freelance jobs and was thinking about going back to school and when I got a an email from my now business partner, Melissa, asking if I wanted to go grab a coffee, and I said, You know what? Yeah, why not? I wouldn’t grab a coffee with her. My favorite coffee shop in the East Village was to Cafe, which is no longer there. Sad. But we chatted, she told me that she was at Wharton Business School. She really she had seen some of my work. I’d won an award at coach for this competition that I had participated in while I was in school. And I had at that point, really thought bags was like, necessarily for me, I just I enjoyed it. And I did the competition, I ended up winning. And I just like moved on with my life. She was she found my work. But it was really interesting. And I had been thinking about what basically she had, she was a career woman in New York, and she was having major handbag issues. Like, we all have had the black hole bag problem. It’s not new, everybody knows about it. But she wanted to create a brand that had really really cool, sleek, minimalist type of designs with super functional interiors. And we set out to create basically the perfect work tote. Together. I loved her, obviously, we got along really well. And it felt like, you know, it felt like for me, Wow, this woman, really rad super smart, has an idea that I find to be interesting, and I think definitely solves the problem that I’m having, which I’m sure other women happening as well. And I want to start my own brand. Like she’s in business school, why not just skip that step, and collaborate. And so we did. Meanwhile, it’s worth mentioning my other partner, Deepa was also talking to Melissa at the time, they were good friends, socially. And they were both at Wharton together. And so Deepa, and I were both kind of like dipping our toes into this idea of Dagne Dover with Melissa and exploring it with her. And now of course, he was also also my business partner, the three of us want to run the company together.

Emily Merrell 

That is such a crazy story. I don’t think I realized how kind of casual the origin of creating a business was. So you know, you had this entrepreneurial spirit inside of you. You knew you liked small businesses, you liked big businesses. And I didn’t realize either that with handbags handbags weren’t necessarily your passion. You like to everything?

Jessy Dover   

Yeah, yes. I love everything, of course, like designed to me, if there’s a problem to be solved. It’s fun, you know, but I want to say that it was completely organic. I think for me, it was very organic. I believe for Melissa, the experience was probably much more intentional. She was looking for co founders I happened to be, it happened to be a good fit.

Emily Merrell 

Yeah, right. Right. Right time. Right. That she saw you. And so when, when you guys started the brand, I mean, you’ve got your last name to be a part of the brand. Was that? Was that something that was strategic in the naming of the brand? Or did she did you toss out like a ton of different names before you landed on Dagne Dover,

Jessy Dover   

we have a doc of hundreds of names that we were thinking about. We ultimately landed on Dagne Dover, because we felt that although it’s sort of like a new frontier for fashion, where not all brands are named after the designer. Because I’m a co founder, it felt right for my name to be a part of the name but not the full name. And so that’s how we landed on Dagne Dover. Dagne is not my name. Dagne means new dawn, the way we were looking at it at that point was like, We want a really interesting, fun, cool name that people haven’t heard before. That is beautiful visually, and partially the like representative of the designer, and partially representative of how we want the industry to change and how we see it evolving over time. Yeah, like

Emily Merrell  

I didn’t know what the Dagne was, I always assumed it was another co founder his middle name or last name. I love that. Well look at you getting your one name on the on the masthead, basically. So you know you talk about the bag that Melissa approached you with this like perfect handbag. And it sounds like the first bag that you created turned into being the signature tote. So I mean, we heard the inspiration behind it. How did you like what were the next steps in bringing this bag to life? You had this coffee with each other you? She’s in business school, you’re in New York City, living the New York City Life. What next?

Jessy Dover 

We brainstormed. We surveyed we focus groups. We got our community involved and we asked them what they wanted in a work bag. And ultimately, we landed on the features that people wanted in the bag, computer like safe, whatever, you know what it probably is it’s like a safety A safe place for your computer, water bottle foam pocket, please, for your keys, we can lose standard list of features. And then I dug into designing. And we designed a bunch of different bags, some are soft, some are more structured, we ultimately landed on the design that we have now. And we’re still selling on the site called the signature tote. It was the only product as well as the clutch, the clutch wallet that we had been that we were selling for a very long time, actually, until we kind of build up enough steam and enough momentum to fill out the assortment with other products, basically four different needs. Um, but yeah, I mean, it took a really long time to design those two products, because we spent like, probably six months, three to six months researching and sampling and trying to figure out what the perfect bag could even like look like what materials made sense for it, we really started from scratch, like we didn’t take another bag and like try to make it better. We just like started from scratch and built around the elements that we wanted in the product, which is what we still do. And so it does take us sometimes a long time to bring a product to market. But because of that it’s always awesome. And so then after that we were fundraising at the same time as we were trying to like build the brand. And so we did presale, we did our first round of production in New York, it was a disaster. It was like there are no factories really in New York, there are sample rooms that can do like relatively, I mean, relatively large amounts of so anyways, we did that. And then we realized, oh, wow, like people actually want these products. They think they’re really cool. And so we like put a halt on everything. My partner, Deepa, who you know, and I, we flew to Asia, and we started meeting with factories that could potentially help us create what’s now Dagne Dover. And I would say that that process was probably don’t like, call me on this, because I’m the worst at remembering like dates and numbers. But I believe probably about a year to a year and a half from start to finish until we like relaunched new factories in Asia all set up, basically to scale. I think

Emily Merrell  

that’s so crazy that you’re like, oh, then New York, one was a disaster. And we’re going to just pause it when you’re getting all this momentum. So when you had this momentum, and I remember your pop up that you had in Soho, and that this may have been after, right around the corner a little bit after you launched, but how did you get the the people to know about your brand. And you know, as someone who works with individuals who are constantly trying to get in front of their ideal customer, there’s oftentimes this disconnect, they’re like, Oh, I put out an Instagram post, and I didn’t hear anything, and I’m gonna give up. So did you? Did you find it hard to find that customer? Was it through word of mouth? What was your journey,

Jessy Dover 

I would like to say that we are just amazing. The truth is, we were starting a brand at a time where there were a few brands starting to pop up like new, cool, interesting brands, one of which was warby Parker, one of which was Everlane. And people were I think, interested in new, cool brands. And open to the idea. Instagram was also becoming what Instagram is now but it wasn’t what it is now. And so we I guess utilize like our online platforms really well, we took people on the journey of creating the brand with us, we didn’t just all of a sudden, like launch a brand. And that was like perfectly put together. And like people to purchase things from us even though like they didn’t know us, we really focused on selling to our network and creating products for the people that we knew, I think was important. And, and also it made that our friends and family be like yeah, of course, like you asked me what I wanted. And then you made it for me. And now of course I’m gonna buy it from you. So so that and then we utilize our network in I did, I don’t know that I realized the power of our personal networks until we started our brand. Because everyone was truly supportive. Everyone in the Wharton network was really supportive of us. Everyone in our in the person, persons network was really supportive of us. People were happy to spread the word once they realized that they really liked the product. And so that was, I think, why we had so much traction so quickly. I’m sure there were other things happening that I don’t know that I don’t I don’t know about but we were also pretty shameless. We’re pretty shameless. And like, it was what we It wasn’t is what we ate, slept, slept and breathed. And so we always talked about it. It was like that. There’s like nothing else to talk about Katie, who introduced us, I would be curious to see what she would say about that time period because I was like, literally only able to eat and like do Dagne Dover stuff. Like I don’t even think I had anything else to talk about probably. Yeah.

Emily Merrell  

And I mean, I, I had the chance to be introduced it through Katie and through Jen, I remember bought a wallet. So all these people were rapping brand. And it was like, Whoa, I want to know what this is. I want to be a part of it. And then I do remember a night I don’t know if I remember this vividly, you had come over with a prototype through our friend Caroline’s department, and we were sitting on the floor, and you’re like, I want to create like a gym bag type thing. And, you know, you’re asking feedback from everyone. You’re like, Emily, what do you do with your gym clothes back when we went to the gym now, and I don’t work out like one foot from my bed. But you know, like, what do you do with your dirty gym clothes. And I’m like, I put it in like a gross plastic bag. And I noticed and I don’t know if this was part of that info session, but I’m gonna just pretend it is. But in the backpack when we get the backpack that I’m obsessed with, it comes with a bag that you can put your dirty clothes in, or you can put your shoe bag, you know your shoes in. But I love it. It’s so amazing for traveling because I use it just for that particular reason of going to the gym and being able to just put my dress clothes in there.

Jessy Dover   

I remember that. You okay, so yeah, at that time I was I was working on the Dakota backpack in the land and carry all and I was really excited about neoprene and I was a workout maniac which same not anymore. Lovely. But thank you for the feedback.

Emily Merrell  

Oh, I love it. That’s amazing. So we heard the story about the incredible signature tote. And then at what point do you get this following going that you were comfortable releasing other products and moving into different fabrics like neoprene it wasn’t

Jessy Dover  

there wasn’t one point in time, it was always my intention to expand the assortment. And as a fitness junkie slash outdoorsy kind of human, I’m from Colorado, I’m a pretty casual person, I wear work bags when I need to like I dress for the occasion. However, like at this point in time, we were living startup life. And we were wearing our workout clothes to the office. And we were working around the clock, we were sometimes going to meetings with external partners and people we were looking to work with. However, most of the time we weren’t. We were just the three of us. And you know, whoever was helping us out at that point in time. And so we just sort of realized that, like we needed something different. And there all of our friends he knew occluded, we’re also working at startups at that point in time. So like something casual that you could take from the office to the gym, was really compelling for people and in particular us. So that’s sort of how we branched out and why we launched 365, our athleisure collection. But but the truth is, our original intention was to create the awesome most kick ass bags for everyone for every occasion.

Emily Merrell  

And you’ve done that and you keep every time I go on the website. I’m like, oh, there’s BB bags. And then there’s leather bags. And there’s so many so many diverse bags that are being introduced. It’s really exciting to just keep refreshing. And you know, when I when you first started, you were direct to consumer, it was this kind of word of mouth wonder wonder thing. And then I remember you popping up at I think it was creating cultivate, you popped up, you bags away at creating, cultivate, and then I wasn’t blocked, I went to a workout class at bandier. And if I’m saying that right, and then walked inside, and like Dagne Dover bags are front and center. And then I go into Nordstroms and Dagne. Dover. So you went from being like this, which you still aren’t really special word of mouth thing. But now being this thing where I’m traveling to different cities in different states, and then senior back there. What was that journey? Like? I keep using the word journey, but like, how did you go from being just this direct to consumer website, which I imagine was like just a simple website to becoming a part of the wholesale market.

Jessy Dover  

We never wanted to be a brand that was sold at a like we just wanted to be a standalone direct to consumer brand. We felt that that was the smartest way to launch our company, the easiest, the most capital efficient, and also, the quickest way to make it happen for us. We had heard horror stories. And obviously all of us had worked at other companies where we were sort of like, tethered to these wholesale companies that would basically tell us what they wanted and then we’d have to like deliver on it. There are many other horror stories that have happened. That I’m not gonna like tell you, but for many reasons, we were like, We don’t want to do that. We would just rather make our own products and sell them directly to Our customers. And I think So somewhere in there, we started getting approached pretty frequently by different companies that wanted to sell our products. For a long time, we were like, no, no, no, no. And eventually, we were like, you know, maybe there is value in this, maybe there’s something else here that we’re not seeing. And maybe if we do pick the right partners, for us, this could be good. And so we did. And bandier was a fantastic partner to us with the 365 collection, when we first launched, it is like the destination for cool workout gear. I still shop there a lot. And we were like, Okay, perfect. Like this actually could be a great partner for us. So we started with that. And then we started selling with a few other retailers, namely Nordstrom. And we realized that with the right partners, actually, they allowed us to reach our customers in a way that we couldn’t do yet, and didn’t have the resources to do so. For example, we didn’t have we haven’t we just opened our first store this past year, yay. But before that we didn’t have anywhere for people to come and look at the product in person, it was a small office in Soho, that was absolutely not in the type of condition where you want any sort of like, consumer or like shopper to come. So people then could go to Nordstrom touch and feel the bag, see the colorways and pick out what they wanted. Like that was huge for us to be able to provide for customer and are very, we’re very thankful for Nordstrom, kind of like connecting those dots for us and still continue to be and so I think in short, it wasn’t a part of our original strategy. And as things evolved and like if you run a business this is just kind of how it works. opportunities come up, you evaluate them and you decide what’s right for you in that moment and right for the brand and so eventually it became the right choice for us and our brand and now we’re very happy with the split that we have between our direct consumer business and our wholesale business.

Emily Merrell   

You can never say never with things like that because you never know when it’s going to be and I-oh your store I I feel like I’ve been in it because I’ve seen so many pictures but I realized I haven’t been in it yet but it is beautiful and huge congratulations to have like a brick and mortar store and to open it during a pandemic I’m sure there must have been thrills and chills to be putting that together

Jessy Dover  

say the least to say the least yes

Emily Merrell 

even I have a store ready to shop. Where is it in New York for those listening?

Jessy Dover  

Yes, in Lafayette and Prince in Soho we did we just opened this past year it’s open ready to shop we have all of our new products there everything from I mean, we have everything so if you go in anyone will be happy to help you find what you’re looking for the packing station where you can like mock pack the products so that you can figure out which one fits your items the best lots of mirrors. And of course we have every colorway. So more look at colors. You can check everything out.

Emily Merrell  

That’s so cool. I can’t wait to check it out. So you know, Jessy, you talked a little bit about the founder reality you talked about when you first started going to the offices you and the girls were wearing workout clothes and working around the clock. And yet I think that there’s this kind of misconception about being a founder where people think it’s like the most glamorous thing in the entire world and that you’re sitting on beaches and drinking balm or drinking bonbons, drinking margaritas and eating bonbons. Do you have any words of wisdom for those that are just starting their entrepreneurial entrepreneurial journey because I also know that you are taking this call not from New York right now. And there is like seems a little bit more freedom in your life than it had been previously.

Jessy Dover 

That’s a really good question. I think for every founder, the journey is different and it sort of depends on your goals and your vision and your let’s be honest, like your resources. For us, we started at zero at square one with nothing just an idea and ourselves something that I think would have been useful to understand and know and perhaps put more time into how I’ve been a little older when I started my company I was like 24 When we started it or maybe even 23 I wish you know how I’ve been a little older I would have built a strong support system and made sure that I had a group of people around me not work people personal support system even you know even if it’s just friends and family I think having that ready that that like you can go to whenever you’re in need I think would be really smart. I built mine over time. And like Katie for example, she’s an OG she’s like one of the members here French, all members of the Jessie support group, but that you go through really hard times. You know, it’s like it’s life at the end of A day, you’re gonna have ups and downs. And you’re gonna want a need a community of people around you that like, are your cheerleaders and are like there to be honest with you, if needed, but also, you know, like, help you push you forward and lift you up and motivate you, and all those things while you’re on the journey.

Emily Merrell  

I think that’s a great piece of advice for anyone everywhere starting out, you know, whether whether or not you have your business already, or are thinking about starting one, don’t do it alone. Like, don’t necessarily think that you have to swallow every problem that you have, and not share it with someone else.

Jessy Dover  

No, that’s a really good point, too, that you make. It’s like just the other thing that I always say is people are like, how did like how did you do it? What do you think is like the, you know, the secret sauce? And I’m like, we there is no secret sauce? Really, the truth is you just have to do it. I think it’s all about like, to me, it’s all about action. It’s like, just go do it. And then you’ve done it and whatever. But at the same time, like the answer that I the real answer to that question is partnership. For me. My partners are amazing. We’re friends, we’re partners for life. We’re life partners truly, like we we joke around and call each other founder wives, because we’re married like we’re in a we’re in a marriage together. And it’s wonderful to be able to have like, I don’t know, being in a leadership position, I’m sure in any company is hard to do alone. It’s hard enough with three of us. I can’t imagine not having each other or just at least one other person to kind of like, go on the journey with

Emily Merrell   

Yeah, I love but it’s nice that you really probably pick up slack for each other along the way. And

Jessy Dover  

totally, and if one person’s like losing it, it’s like, Okay, go. Do you deal with what you need to deal with? We’ll handle this right now. You know,

Emily Merrell  

it’s incredible that you started this at 23-24 years old. And I’m sure the learnings are immense. And we need like three more hours on a podcast for those deep questions. But I’ll spare you today, Jessy. But I do want to know, what’s next for Jessy Dover and Dagne Dover?

Jessy Dover 

Great question. Do we have three hours?

Emily Merrell 

How long is your dream list?

Jessy Dover  

I’m like, No, it’s very long. We have a long dream list. Yeah, that’s a good question. So really excited right now about figuring out what’s next for our team. Like we don’t have an office right now we got rid of our office, I’m sure like a lot of people question is, do we want to go back into an office, I don’t know. Currently, I am living in Mexico, because I realized, like, I’m sure many other people did, I can live like a hermit in my apartment anywhere in my house anywhere. And so I decided to come somewhere a little warmer, and a little more low key a little more inspiring. And so so that’s the thing that we’re thinking about, I’ll let you know, if we figure out a new thing interesting. But um, I’m assuming it’s going to be some sort of like split between, you know, part, like, per office time part work from home for people, I’m excited to figure that out, I’m excited to like, be reinvigorated by the idea of like, having control over our day to days and being able to work when we’re feeling most motivated, you know, not necessarily having to sit in a chair for you know, a specific set of hours each day. And then we are venturing down the sustainability black hole, which has been in an incredible learning experience. And I’m very excited, we will be launching some recycled products actually really soon here, which is a result of all of our research and hard work over the last year and a half of like finding the materials, figuring out what you know, like, how can we try? How can we make sure that it actually is recycled? Like who’s the best person to go to? You know, how can our factory figure out how to work with these materials? So I’m excited to be just start transitioning our brand to a more conscious company. So that’s next and what else do we have going on? No, I’m actually personally just really excited to get back I have my vaccination appointment, excited to get back to being able to move around a little bit. I’m coming to New York, and I’m just like, stoked about being able to be in my store and switch out the visual merchandising on my own. And like, water the plants

Emily Merrell

to people and be like you move that there you

Jessy Dover  

just be annoying but I’m really just excited to see people’s faces.

Emily Merrell  

I know I definitely hear you and that feels like we all took a gap year from life in a weird way. Well, thank you so much for sharing all of that incredible part of your story. I know there’s like part two, part three, part four, probably in there as well. But, you know, just switching gears a little bit. I love to end our session. Our sessions like this is a therapy session, Jessy is kind of our podcast with a few questions. Six fast questions. So, first question I have for you is tell us an unknown fun fact about you.

Jessy Dover  

Unknown fun fact about me, I knocked my front teeth out on my 30th birthday doing the worm because I want it to be a part of this dance competition. And I sometimes can be overly competent, especially when I’ve had a couple of drinks. So I decided I’m gonna like get entering the dance competition and knock my front teeth out. The worst part of the whole thing is that I was at the time in Mexico and so I had to live a whole entire week with my best friends. My boyfriend at the time was like, basically cracked out front teeth. And it was a very humbling experience. Now I have, I can talk about it now because I have my my teeth. My teeth are repaired. And I’m very you know, they they’re, they’re not coming out. But that is a fun funny back so my two front teeth are not real.

Emily Merrell  

Oh, that’s so scary and painful in a great unknown fun fact. They look great. They’re super wide. I keep looking at your teeth. being like, I find my teeth I definitely am not as like, My teeth are not as white of Jessy right now. Living in Mexico and having like teeth. So you know switching gears one more time who would be a dream person for you to be connected with?

Jessy Dover  

Stevie Nicks.

Emily Merrell  

I love. I love that. Have you seen American Horror story? She’s on that.

Jessy Dover  

No, I’m afraid of scary shows.

Emily Merrell  

I am too and I actually enjoyed it more than I thought like I can’t watch past PG that scary like Casper meets Monday was pushing pushing it for me so.

Jessy Dover  

Okay, I’ll have to watch it. And then I’m going to call you and tell you if I get freaked out. 

Emily Merrell  

Yes, please watch the witches coven one and that’s the one that she’s in. And I think that one is like. Yeah, it’s good. And yeah, I think I think you’ll if you’re my level of scary like, I think you can handle it. And I really did not think I could at all. What are you currently watching besides American Horror Story shortly.

Jessy Dover  

New Amsterdam. I’m obsessed with it. I started it while I was down here on a recommendation from my mother and I’m obsessed with it. Have you watched it?

Emily Merrell  

No, I haven’t. Should I watch it as a doctor show? Right?

Jessy Dover  

It’s a doctor show is next level Dr. Show? Watch it.

Emily Merrell  

Please greys anatomy give me like PTSD. So okay, I will. And it’s not

Jessy Dover  

and I hadn’t watched a doctor show since and I can’t even look at Grey’s Anatomy. Not that I don’t like it. I think it was beautiful. But I would venture to say that it is better. Way better.

Emily Merrell  

Okay. Okay. Done. I mean, I every time I go into the doctor, I’m like, Well, I was on Dr. Google and I’m sure I have everything. Like okay,

Jessy Dover  

okay, reel it in.

Emily Merrell  

Okay, what book are you currently reading? If any,

Jessy Dover  

the book of joy, reading the book of joy, it’s been a rough year. Ups and downs, as I’m sure everyone can relate. And I recommend it. Because even if I read a couple pages a day, it makes me joyful, more joyful. Yeah.

Emily Merrell  

I love that. Okay, I haven’t heard of it. I will pick that one up next. And then what is your favorite emoji and or like the most commonly used emoji in your phone?

Jessy Dover  

Those are different. Okay, so favorite emoji? cool sunglasses guy for four? Because I like that vibe. Most use emoji is absolutely 1,000% Thumbs up. 

Emily Merrell  

It’s really okay. 

Jessy Dover  

Yeah, like big slack user over here all day, every day. And as a creative, I’m responsible for approving a lot of things. And so I give a lot of thumbs ups. But also, I don’t know why I’m maybe I should start giving thumbs up in real life.

Emily Merrell  

Yeah. Or you could start like, giving them a different emotion like a heart. Like I love it. And they might feel something stronger from you

Jessy Dover  

might be my second might be my second. Validation.

Emily Merrell  

Okay, my final question for you is Who gave you permission to do the thing you wanted to do in your life?

Jessy Dover  

I did. I did. Yeah, I would say that. I’ve always been very certain about what I want and where I’m going and I will not let anything get in my way once I have decided upon it. And it just kind of it seems to me it comes to me, I don’t know where it is coming from. But yeah, I definitely would say that I have given myself permission to do what I wanted to do. But I also think that you are really the only person that can get in the way of doing what you want to do. So it’s kind of just like up to you to release your own judgments of yourself and or whatever it is that is holding you back. Really evaluate the excuses and the 

Emily Merrell  

art of war. Is that what it’s called The Art of War, the War of Art, just how we remember that like a book on creatives getting in your for creatives, who like writer’s block is your own problem. Love that. Love that answer? Well, Jessy Dover of Dagne Dover, and thank you so much for joining us on the sixth, sixth degree today. It was an absolute pleasure hearing your story and being able to catch up with you. And thank you so much for being here.

Jessy Dover  

Thanks for having me. This has been awesome. Can’t wait to hear it.

Emily Merrell  

I know me too. And for listeners if you like today’s episode, please make sure to give us a review. Share it with your friends, and we’ll see you the next time on the sixth degree.